Submission timeline
2007–2026One slot for every year since HN launched. Height is that year's peak points; orange marks a 100+ point or 50+ comment breakout. Select a bar to open its strongest thread.
First comments on top threads
HN comment orderThis is probably where I should mention my two longer articles that discuss this in depth; https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/06/09/goodharts-law-and-why-... https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/09/29/soft-bias-of-underspec... As well as my more recent paper categorizing the different ways it occurs; https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.04585
A closely-related effect I often cite is the McNamara fallacy[0], which is essentially about the tendency to focus on aspects of a system that are easily measurable, often at the expense of aspects that are not. I see it as one of the weaknesses of the data-driven decision-making movement, since many interpret "data" to mean "numbers". I think this fallacy can partly explain why Goodhart's Law holds: it's the non-measurable (or difficult-to-measure) aspects that suffer most when a metric becomes…
Goodhart’s law: “Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes.” And Marilyn Strathern’s generalization of it: “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” What are some examples of Goodhart’s Law that you see in the world?
It reminds me of that old saw falsely attributed to W E Deming, "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it". I often see it come up on twitter, usually quoted by people whose... managerial ambitions I would prefer thwarted for the greater good :P On the contrary Deming himself was very aware of this effect, and explicitly cautioned against running a company on just the numbers.
The first top-level comment from each of the four biggest threads, in HN’s own order. Excerpts are shortened; open a comment for full context.
- Breakout years
- 2
- Total points
- 438
- Total comments
- 221
100+ points or 50+ comments
reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking
reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking
Every submission
| Date | Title as submitted | By | Points | Comments |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-05-21 | Goodhart's law | michael_nielsen | 2 | 1 |
| 2014-09-29 | Goodhart's Law | dedalus | 1 | 0 |
| 2015-07-26 | Goodhart's law | fasteo | 1 | 0 |
| 2015-08-17 | Goodhart's Law | asimjalis | 2 | 1 |
| 2018-06-15 | Goodhart's Law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measureFirst breakout · Best thread | chrisshroba | 229 | 134 |
| 2019-12-12 | Goodhart's Law | mgh2 | 1 | 0 |
| 2020-02-26 | Goodhart's Law | throwaway3157 | 1 | 0 |
| 2020-04-24 | Goodhart's Law | marcopolis | 1 | 0 |
| 2021-03-30 | Goodhart's Law | bluu00 | 2 | 0 |
| 2021-04-16 | Goodhart's Law | cwwc | 3 | 2 |
| 2021-06-09 | Goodhart's Law | mgh2 | 4 | 0 |
| 2021-09-17 | Goodhart's LawHall induction · Latest 20+ point return | rfreytag | 178 | 83 |
| 2023-08-17 | Goodhart's Law | jonbaer | 1 | 0 |
| 2023-09-07 | Goodhart's Law | herbertl | 2 | 0 |
| 2023-09-11 | When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure | alphadelphi | 1 | 0 |
| 2025-03-26 | Goodhart's Law | haikuya | 3 | 0 |
| 2025-06-14 | Goodhart's Law | wslh | 2 | 0 |
| 2025-10-02 | Goodhart's Law | doener | 2 | 0 |
| 2026-02-02 | Goodhart's Law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure | insuranceguru | 2 | 0 |
