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The Axiom of Choice is Wrong (2007)

cornellmath.wordpress.com Essays & writing Essays & articles Mathematics & science Candidate
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Resurfaced independently across 4 calendar years, with breakout response in 2 of them.

submissions
4
submitters
4
observed span
2009–2017
peak thread · 149 comments
110 pts
latest 20+ return · 2017-02-05
110 pts

Submission timeline

2007–2026

One slot for every year since HN launched. Height is that year's peak points; orange marks a 100+ point or 50+ comment breakout. Select a bar to open its strongest thread.

First comments on top threads

HN comment order

The problem solution in the article uses the axiom of choice to construct a "nonprincipal ultrafilter" on the natural numbers. This is actually weaker than the full axiom of choice, but you can still show that no such object is computable. It's a nice exercise to show that with the same assumptions as in the article you can decide the halting problem. (hint: consider the boolean sequence where the nth element is true iff the Turing machine halts within n…

fmap·110-point thread·

One of the troubling aspects of the Axiom of Choice is that both affirming and denying it results in some pretty unintuitive implications (but different ones). This MathOverflow discussion has some interesting examples of unintuitive implications of the axiom, along with a bonus answer giving examples of unintuitive implications of not having the axiom: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/20882/most-unintuitive-app... The history of it is full of people wrestling with both sides of that, including many participants…

mjn·68-point thread·

So this guy is against using the axiom of choice because a countably infinite number of prisoners in a row who have agreed on an infinite set of equivalence classes just between breakfast and hat game time and remember them and each of them can recognize infinitely many hat colors in finite time (takes deep breath) suddenly becomes unintuitive using the axiom of choice? I can't help him there.

limmeau·35-point thread·

A related, and to my mind even more counter-intuitive result, is a strategy for predicting f(x) given only the values {f(y), y<x}, where f is any arbitrary function on the reals. https://www.math.upenn.edu/~ted/203S10/References/peculiar.p... [PDF]

Ended·9-point thread·

The first top-level comment from each of the four biggest threads, in HN’s own order. Excerpts are shortened; open a comment for full context.

Breakout years
2

100+ points or 50+ comments

Total points
222

reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking

Total comments
246

reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking

Every submission

DateTitle as submittedByPointsComments
2009-05-27The Axiom of Choice is Wrong (2007)rw3519
2014-07-05The Axiom of Choice is Wrong (2007)First breakoutColinWright6876
2016-02-09The Axiom of Choice Is Wrong (2007)monort92
2017-02-05The Axiom of Choice Is Wrong (2007)Best thread · Latest 20+ point returnjaybosamiya110149