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How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)

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Resurfaced independently across 12 calendar years, with breakout response in 5 of them.

submissions
18
submitters
17
observed span
2009–2024
peak thread · 156 comments
383 pts
latest 20+ return · 2024-10-25
77 pts

Submission timeline

2007–2026

One slot for every year since HN launched. Height is that year's peak points; orange marks a 100+ point or 50+ comment breakout. Select a bar to open its strongest thread.

First comments on top threads

HN comment order

Averages (even with the post's approach) still have the problem of not being "honest" in the game theory sense. For example, if something is rated 4 stars with 100 reviews, a reviewer who believes its true rating should be 3 stars is motivated to give it 1 star because that will move the average rating closer to his desired outcome. A look at rating distributions shows that this is in fact how many people behave. Median ratings are "honest" in…

paulgb·383-point thread·

While I agree with the author in principle, I think there is an implicit criteria they ignore, which is the intuitive correctness from the perspective of the user. Imagine a user chooses "Sort by rating", and they subsequently observe an item with an average 4.5 ranking above a score of 5.0 because it has a higher Wilson score. Some portion of users will think "Ah, yes, this makes sense because the 4.5 rating is based on many more reviews, therefore…

Why get the lower bound: this means you systematically underestimate the items with fewer ratings. Also this formula assumes normal distribution. There is another solution called 'True Bayesian Average' that is used on IMDB.com, for example. For the formula and the explanation how it works see here: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/507508.html

ntoshev·195-point thread·

Also discussed in Cameron Davidson-Pilon's Bayesian methods for Hackers in the context of Reddit ups/downs: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/CamDavidsonPilon/Probabil... For Amazon, though, which is the example in Evan Miller's post, I don't really get why you'd first dichotomize the five-star rating into positive vs. negative and then use Wilson intervals. Just construct a run-of-the-mill 95% confidence interval for the mean of a continuous distribution and sort by the (still plausible) worst case scenario…

The first top-level comment from each of the four biggest threads, in HN’s own order. Excerpts are shortened; open a comment for full context.

Breakout years
5

100+ points or 50+ comments

Total points
1294

reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking

Total comments
410

reference only — not used in Hall rules or ranking

Every submission

DateTitle as submittedByPointsComments
2009-02-12How Not To Sort By Average RatingFirst breakoutmarcus19556
2010-03-25How Not To Sort By Average Ratingntoshev14131
2012-04-01How Not To Sort By Average RatingJoshTriplett41
2014-03-25How Not To Sort By Average Ratingespadrine10
2015-07-09How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)jmilloy15059
2016-11-04How not to sort by average rating (2009)pkd10
2017-01-25How Not to Sort by Average Ratingofficialjunk20
2017-04-10How Not to Sort by Average Ratingedward10
2017-05-10How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)mxfh20
2017-08-07How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)aaossa30
2017-08-30How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)Hall induction · Best threadAqwis383156
2019-04-05How Not to Sort by Average Ratingsanj20
2019-10-26How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)kick20
2019-10-26How Not to Sort by Average Rating (2009)kick20
2020-08-21How Not to Sort by Average Ratingpeterstensmyr20
2021-11-12How not to sort by average rating (2009)soheilpro32582
2023-09-27How not to sort by average rating (2009)gpvos10
2024-10-25How not to sort by average rating (2009)Latest 20+ point returnnotracks7725